With Bro. Eliseo Soriano‘s recent death, it is sometimes unavoidable to think whether he, who attacked the Catholic Church and other Christian sects, was saved or damned. Catholics are divided in this argument because it is a question that does not come up very often.
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Rest in peace, Brother Eli! Condolences to the MCGI family! We, Catholics, never condemn anyone to hell. Only God sees what’s in the heart and mind of the person during the last moments of his/her earthly journey. A person can sincerely and truly repent in his/her wrongdoings at any point of his/her life. And if …
A Catholic priest who is very well respected in the field of apologetics in the Philippines posted something on his Facebook page related to the above-mentioned topic. I saw his post and I agreed that it is not useless to pray for the soul of the pastor. Another Catholic saw the same post who aggressively provoke the priest telling him to study a bit more about the matter. He does not like the idea of praying for the soul of a sinner. He sticks to an old belief that sinners like Judas are in hell, so, why pray for them?
We had a separate conversation in the comments section of the priest’s post and this is the transcript. Note: I am hiding his identity until I get his permission to reveal his name in this post. His arguments in red and my responses in black fonts.
There is a consensus among the Fathers of the Church that JUDAS IS IN HELL.
In a 5th Century sermon, Pope St. Leo the Great said Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition, is punished eternally in hell.
“The traitor #Judas did not attain to this mercy, for the son of perdition (Jn. 17:12), at whose right hand the devil had stood (Ps. 108:6), had before this died in despair; even while Christ was fulfilling the mystery of the general redemption… The godless betrayer, shutting his mind to all these things, turned upon himself, NOT WITH A MIND TO REPENT, but in the madness of self-destruction: so that this man who had sold the Author of life to the executioners of His death, even in the act of dying sinned unto the increase of his own #eternal punishment.” cf. Sermon 62, On the Passion of the Lord
Even Pope Pius XI attested it.
“JUDAS, an Apostle of Christ, ‘one of the twelve,’ as the Evangelists sadly observe, WAS LED DOWN TO THE ABYSS OF INIQUITY (hell) precisely through the spirit of greed for earthly things.” (Encyclical Ad Catholici Sacredotii, n. 49)
“In the case of JUDAS, the abuse of grace was the reason for his reprobation, since he was made reprobate because HE DIED WITHOUT GRACE.” –St. Thomas Aquinas, Truth, Q. 6, Art. 2; p. 262 [Translated by Fr. Robert W. Mulligan, S.J.]
Our Lord Jesus Christ also condemned Judas Iscariot.
“The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but #WOE to that one by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that one not to have been born.” St. Matthew 26:24
The Church has consistently believed that there will be at least two human beings in hell. The first is the Antichrist who is described in Revelation 20:10 as being “tormented day and night forever and ever.” One could also reasonably assume, given the principle of biblical typology, that all of the Antichrists described by St. John in his first letter as well as those who have been historically considered types of the Antichrist also suffered a similar fate. The other example is Judas Iscariot. Although the Church is not in the habit of declaring reverse canonizations, the witness of Scripture offers no other interpretation than that Judas Iscariot ended up in hell. In Matthew 26:24, Our Lord Jesus Christ declares that “would be better for that man [that betrayed Him] if he had never been born.” In John 6:70 He calls Judas “a devil” and in 17:2 He says that “none of them was lost except the son of destruction.” None of these could be true if Judas Iscariot was counted among the Blessed.
(His Name) These are good arguments really. Please Allow me to comment.
Recorded or written sermons of Popes not addressed to the universal church, St Thomas, and the Fathers of the Church are not infallible. Even encyclicals are not infallible unless it’s really stated in that encyclical that this and this are infallible. You may read Humani Generis 1950.
To address this Ad Catholici Sacredotii you mentioned. It did say “abyss of inequity” which simply refers to a state of our souls when we succumb to temptations and the devil takes over us thus leading us to sin. The encyclical did not talk about hell but it was exhorting ministers m, like the apostles, to always be in a state of grace unlike Judas.
Finally, with Jesus’s statement during last supper about Judas, there is no certainty in that verse that Judas did not repent. He is God of Love and he wants us all qualified souls to himself.
Conclusion: The Universal Church never officially condemned anyone to hell! Judas, Bro Eli, etc. They are in hell if they did not truly repent before death! But we still pray for them as Christians who love their enemies.
Jong Esto Faithful and informed Catholics know that JUDAS IS IN HELL.
The Council of Trent Catechism teaches that Judas lost his soul and thus, is in hell:
“Furthermore, no one can deny that it is a virtue to be sorrowful at the time, in the manner, and to the extent which are required. To regulate sorrow in this manner belongs to the virtue of penance. Some conceive a sorrow which bears no proportion to their crimes. Nay, there are some, says Solomon, who are glad when they have done evil. Others, on the contrary, give themselves to such melancholy and grief, as utterly to abandon all hope of salvation. Such, perhaps, was the condition of Cain when he exclaimed: My iniquity is greater than that I may deserve pardon. SUCH CERTAINLY WAS THE CONDITION OF #JUDAS, WHO, REPENTING, HANGED HIMSELF, AND THUS #LOST_SOUL AND BODY. Penance, therefore, considered as a virtue, assists us in restraining within the bounds of moderation our sense of sorrow.” [Council of Trent Catechism, section The Sacrament of Penance, subsection Penance Proved To Be A Virtue, (emphasis added)]
The Council of Trent Catechism further teaches that Judas’s apostleship brought him only #eternal ruin. Here are the catechism’s words:
“Some are attracted to the priesthood by ambition and love of honors; while there are others who desire to be ordained simply in order that they may abound in riches, as is proved by the fact that unless some wealthy benefice were conferred on them, they would not dream of receiving Holy Orders. It is such as these that our Savior describes as hirelings, who, in the words of Ezechiel, feed themselves and not the sheep, and whose baseness and dishonesty have not only brought great disgrace on the ecclesiastical state, so much so that hardly anything is now more vile and contemptible in the eyes of the faithful, but also end in this, that they derive NO OTHER FRUIT FROM THEIR PRIESTHOOD THAN WAS DERIVED BY JUDAS FROM THE APOSTLESHIP, WHICH ONLY BROUGHT HIM #EVERLASTING_DESTRUCTION.” [Council of Trent Catechism, section: The Sacrament of Holy Orders, subsection: The Right Intention, (emphasis added).
(His Name) bro, Catechisms are not infallible!
Councils will produce infallible statements starting with “if anyone… let him be anathema”. Those are the infallible statements. The council of Trent did not say anything about Judas in its list of excommunicable offences.
Bro, it’s really easy! 1. Only God knows the heart and mind of the sinner. 2. The Church can excommunicate (for repentance) but can not condemn.
It took me years of studies and a lot of humility to understand infallibility.
Please message me privately should you want to chat further.
“Ad servitium Christi et Ecclesia ubique incitantis!”
“The Roman Catechism is a work of exceptional authority. At the very least it has the same authority as a dogmatic Encyclical, it is an authoritative exposition of Catholic doctrine given forth, and GUARANTEED TO BE ORTHODOX BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND HER SUPREME HEAD ON EARTH.” –Doctor John Hagan, [Rector of the Irish College in Rome, 1904-1930], cf. Authority and Excellence of the Roman Catechism
Before Vatican II, the case of Judas was not an issue. No Catholic doubted that Judas is in Hell. Exorcists attested to it. After Vatican 2 when some Catholics believe in false idea about “mercy”, their minds changed but not the Doctrine of the Church.
Judas was damned in hell because of suicide.
“Suicide is the sin of those in DESPAIR, who do not believe in God’s mercy and ability to carry them through all adversities. Suicide is a sin of Judas.
The suicide no longer holds that God forgives anything and everything when a sinner repents. He no longer holds that God is infinitely powerful, that he can draw good out of the most horrible evils.” (My Catholic Faith by Bishop Louis La Ravoire Morrow, S.T.D., p. 217)
“For if we look to its value, we must confess that the Redeemer shed His blood for the salvation of all; but if we look to THE FRUIT which mankind have received from it, we shall easily find that it PERTAINS not unto all, but TO MANY of the human race. When therefore (‘our Lord) said: For you, He meant either THOSE WHO WERE PRESENT, or those chosen from among the Jewish people, such as were, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF JUDAS, the disciples with whom He was speaking. When He added, And for many, He wished to be understood to mean the remainder of the elect from among the Jews or Gentiles.” (Catechism of the Council of Trent, p.147)
The Dogmatic Council of Trent never doubted that Judas was exempted from the FRUITS OF SALVATION offered by Christ at the Cross.
Judas was damned in Hell long before the Council declared it.
(His Name) if you understand the limits of infallibility then we wouldn’t be arguing on this.
Bro can you confirm, just so it’s clear, are you with SSPX?
I am not with them bro.
Ok. I sent you a private message.
Hello bro can we continue here? (Now in Facebook Messenger private message)
So bro, although the Church does not define who are now in hell, which opinion do you side with? Is Judas saved or damned?
For me he is in hell and should be damned after all he has done.
Pero sarili ko lang paningin yan (But it’s just my own conclusion) as a human with limited thinking. Even my fav Saint John Vianney said Judas is in hell. There is less to no possibility kasi na nasaved siya (that he repented) if we refer to the written account(Bible). Plus Tradition supports his damnation as you may know from many references. Unfortunately wala pang (there is still no) official and infallible statement that ascertains his damnation. Di ba dapat 3 yan nagsupport sa isang teaching. (Shouldn’t it be that these three should support a teaching?) Bible, Tradition, at Magisterium? Once the Mother Church promulgates officially and solemnly that Judas is damned, that’s the time na mag fully agree ako with you (that I would fully agree with you). Kaso lang bro murag dili na mahitabo kay sa Ginoo man nang trabaho gud dili sa simbahan. (But I doubt it would happen because it’s God’s job to condemn and not the Church’s. All the Church can do is ask God for a sign na naging saint ang isang tao (that a person lived as a saint).
Ah pariho diay tag opinion bro. (Ah, so we have the same opinion then, bro.) Gani, ang mga visionaries ug exorcists ila pod gisulti nga naimpierno si Judas Iscariot. (In fact, visionaries and exorcists said that Judas is in hell.)
Correct! Pero (but), for Messages from visions and other private revelations, the faithful are not obliged to believe every single message attributed to these revelations. The Church can only confirm that such and such came from God and approve its devotions. Remember a seer or an exorcist is just but a member and they don’t represent the Universal Church.
Let us serve Christ and the Church in all circumstances!