Is Judas in Hell? A Friendly Discussion with a Fellow Catholic

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With Bro. Eliseo Soriano‘s recent death, it is sometimes unavoidable to think whether he, who attacked the Catholic Church and other Christian sects, was saved or damned. Catholics are divided in this argument because it is a question that does not come up very often.

My Previous Post

A Catholic priest who is very well respected in the field of apologetics in the Philippines posted something on his Facebook page related to the above-mentioned topic. I saw his post and I agreed that it is not useless to pray for the soul of the pastor. Another Catholic saw the same post who aggressively provoke the priest telling him to study a bit more about the matter. He does not like the idea of praying for the soul of a sinner. He sticks to an old belief that sinners like Judas are in hell, so, why pray for them?

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We had a separate conversation in the comments section of the priest’s post and this is the transcript. Note: I am hiding his identity until I get his permission to reveal his name in this post. His arguments in red and my responses in black fonts.

There is a consensus among the Fathers of the Church that JUDAS IS IN HELL.

In a 5th Century sermon, Pope St. Leo the Great said Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition, is punished eternally in hell.

“The traitor #Judas did not attain to this mercy, for the son of perdition (Jn. 17:12), at whose right hand the devil had stood (Ps. 108:6), had before this died in despair; even while Christ was fulfilling the mystery of the general redemption… The godless betrayer, shutting his mind to all these things, turned upon himself, NOT WITH A MIND TO REPENT, but in the madness of self-destruction: so that this man who had sold the Author of life to the executioners of His death, even in the act of dying sinned unto the increase of his own #eternal punishment.” cf. Sermon 62, On the Passion of the Lord

Even Pope Pius XI attested it.

“JUDAS, an Apostle of Christ, ‘one of the twelve,’ as the Evangelists sadly observe, WAS LED DOWN TO THE ABYSS OF INIQUITY (hell) precisely through the spirit of greed for earthly things.” (Encyclical Ad Catholici Sacredotii, n. 49)

“In the case of JUDAS, the abuse of grace was the reason for his reprobation, since he was made reprobate because HE DIED WITHOUT GRACE.” –St. Thomas Aquinas, Truth, Q. 6, Art. 2; p. 262 [Translated by Fr. Robert W. Mulligan, S.J.]

(https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=kupLAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA262&lpg=PA262&dq=In+the+case+of+JUDAS,+the+abuse+of+grace+was+the+reason+for+his+reprobation,+since+he+was+made+reprobate+because+HE+DIED+WITHOUT+GRACE&source=bl&ots=3zfjrjVGMP&sig=ACfU3U2LT2lPINTbHboVlW8ctCSE7OPGTQ&hl=ceb&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi8rvaq8uXuAhUdxYsBHSz4AzwQ6AEwBXoECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=true)

Our Lord Jesus Christ also condemned Judas Iscariot.

“The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but #WOE to that one by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that one not to have been born.” St. Matthew 26:24

The Church has consistently believed that there will be at least two human beings in hell. The first is the Antichrist who is described in Revelation 20:10 as being “tormented day and night forever and ever.” One could also reasonably assume, given the principle of biblical typology, that all of the Antichrists described by St. John in his first letter as well as those who have been historically considered types of the Antichrist also suffered a similar fate. The other example is Judas Iscariot. Although the Church is not in the habit of declaring reverse canonizations, the witness of Scripture offers no other interpretation than that Judas Iscariot ended up in hell. In Matthew 26:24, Our Lord Jesus Christ declares that “would be better for that man [that betrayed Him] if he had never been born.” In John 6:70 He calls Judas “a devil” and in 17:2 He says that “none of them was lost except the son of destruction.” None of these could be true if Judas Iscariot was counted among the Blessed.

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(His Name) These are good arguments really. Please Allow me to comment.

Recorded or written sermons of Popes not addressed to the universal church, St Thomas, and the Fathers of the Church are not infallible. Even encyclicals are not infallible unless it’s really stated in that encyclical that this and this are infallible. You may read Humani Generis 1950.

To address this Ad Catholici Sacredotii you mentioned. It did say “abyss of inequity” which simply refers to a state of our souls when we succumb to temptations and the devil takes over us thus leading us to sin. The encyclical did not talk about hell but it was exhorting ministers m, like the apostles, to always be in a state of grace unlike Judas.

Finally, with Jesus’s statement during last supper about Judas, there is no certainty in that verse that Judas did not repent. He is God of Love and he wants us all qualified souls to himself.

Conclusion: The Universal Church never officially condemned anyone to hell! Judas, Bro Eli, etc. They are in hell if they did not truly repent before death! But we still pray for them as Christians who love their enemies.

Cheers bro!

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Jong Esto Faithful and informed Catholics know that JUDAS IS IN HELL.

The Council of Trent Catechism teaches that Judas lost his soul and thus, is in hell:

“Furthermore, no one can deny that it is a virtue to be sorrowful at the time, in the manner, and to the extent which are required. To regulate sorrow in this manner belongs to the virtue of penance. Some conceive a sorrow which bears no proportion to their crimes. Nay, there are some, says Solomon, who are glad when they have done evil. Others, on the contrary, give themselves to such melancholy and grief, as utterly to abandon all hope of salvation. Such, perhaps, was the condition of Cain when he exclaimed: My iniquity is greater than that I may deserve pardon. SUCH CERTAINLY WAS THE CONDITION OF #JUDAS, WHO, REPENTING, HANGED HIMSELF, AND THUS #LOST_SOUL AND BODY. Penance, therefore, considered as a virtue, assists us in restraining within the bounds of moderation our sense of sorrow.” [Council of Trent Catechism, section The Sacrament of Penance, subsection Penance Proved To Be A Virtue, (emphasis added)]

The Council of Trent Catechism further teaches that Judas’s apostleship brought him only #eternal ruin. Here are the catechism’s words:

“Some are attracted to the priesthood by ambition and love of honors; while there are others who desire to be ordained simply in order that they may abound in riches, as is proved by the fact that unless some wealthy benefice were conferred on them, they would not dream of receiving Holy Orders. It is such as these that our Savior describes as hirelings, who, in the words of Ezechiel, feed themselves and not the sheep, and whose baseness and dishonesty have not only brought great disgrace on the ecclesiastical state, so much so that hardly anything is now more vile and contemptible in the eyes of the faithful, but also end in this, that they derive NO OTHER FRUIT FROM THEIR PRIESTHOOD THAN WAS DERIVED BY JUDAS FROM THE APOSTLESHIP, WHICH ONLY BROUGHT HIM #EVERLASTING_DESTRUCTION.” [Council of Trent Catechism, section: The Sacrament of Holy Orders, subsection: The Right Intention, (emphasis added).

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(His Name) bro, Catechisms are not infallible!

Councils will produce infallible statements starting with “if anyone… let him be anathema”. Those are the infallible statements. The council of Trent did not say anything about Judas in its list of excommunicable offences.

Bro, it’s really easy! 1. Only God knows the heart and mind of the sinner. 2. The Church can excommunicate (for repentance) but can not condemn.

It took me years of studies and a lot of humility to understand infallibility.

Please message me privately should you want to chat further.

“Ad servitium Christi et Ecclesia ubique incitantis!”

http://www.theprayinglensman.com

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“The Roman Catechism is a work of exceptional authority. At the very least it has the same authority as a dogmatic Encyclical, it is an authoritative exposition of Catholic doctrine given forth, and GUARANTEED TO BE ORTHODOX BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND HER SUPREME HEAD ON EARTH.” –Doctor John Hagan, [Rector of the Irish College in Rome, 1904-1930], cf. Authority and Excellence of the Roman Catechism

Before Vatican II, the case of Judas was not an issue. No Catholic doubted that Judas is in Hell. Exorcists attested to it. After Vatican 2 when some Catholics believe in false idea about “mercy”, their minds changed but not the Doctrine of the Church.

Judas was damned in hell because of suicide.

“Suicide is the sin of those in DESPAIR, who do not believe in God’s mercy and ability to carry them through all adversities. Suicide is a sin of Judas.

The suicide no longer holds that God forgives anything and everything when a sinner repents. He no longer holds that God is infinitely powerful, that he can draw good out of the most horrible evils.” (My Catholic Faith by Bishop Louis La Ravoire Morrow, S.T.D., p. 217)

“For if we look to its value, we must confess that the Redeemer shed His blood for the salvation of all; but if we look to THE FRUIT which mankind have received from it, we shall easily find that it PERTAINS not unto all, but TO MANY of the human race. When therefore (‘our Lord) said: For you, He meant either THOSE WHO WERE PRESENT, or those chosen from among the Jewish people, such as were, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF JUDAS, the disciples with whom He was speaking. When He added, And for many, He wished to be understood to mean the remainder of the elect from among the Jews or Gentiles.” (Catechism of the Council of Trent, p.147)

The Dogmatic Council of Trent never doubted that Judas was exempted from the FRUITS OF SALVATION offered by Christ at the Cross.

Judas was damned in Hell long before the Council declared it.

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(His Name) if you understand the limits of infallibility then we wouldn’t be arguing on this.

Bro can you confirm, just so it’s clear, are you with SSPX?

I am not with them bro.

Ok. I sent you a private message.

Cheers!

Hello bro can we continue here? (Now in Facebook Messenger private message)

Hi bro

So bro, although the Church does not define who are now in hell, which opinion do you side with? Is Judas saved or damned?

For me he is in hell and should be damned after all he has done.

Pero sarili ko lang paningin yan (But it’s just my own conclusion) as a human with limited thinking. Even my fav Saint John Vianney said Judas is in hell. There is less to no possibility kasi na nasaved siya (that he repented) if we refer to the written account(Bible). Plus Tradition supports his damnation as you may know from many references. Unfortunately wala pang (there is still no) official and infallible statement that ascertains his damnation. Di ba dapat 3 yan nagsupport sa isang teaching. (Shouldn’t it be that these three should support a teaching?) Bible, Tradition, at Magisterium? Once the Mother Church promulgates officially and solemnly that Judas is damned, that’s the time na mag fully agree ako with you (that I would fully agree with you). Kaso lang bro murag dili na mahitabo kay sa Ginoo man nang trabaho gud dili sa simbahan. (But I doubt it would happen because it’s God’s job to condemn and not the Church’s. All the Church can do is ask God for a sign na naging saint ang isang tao (that a person lived as a saint).

Ah pariho diay tag opinion bro. (Ah, so we have the same opinion then, bro.) Gani, ang mga visionaries ug exorcists ila pod gisulti nga naimpierno si Judas Iscariot. (In fact, visionaries and exorcists said that Judas is in hell.)

Correct! Pero (but), for Messages from visions and other private revelations, the faithful are not obliged to believe every single message attributed to these revelations. The Church can only confirm that such and such came from God and approve its devotions. Remember a seer or an exorcist is just but a member and they don’t represent the Universal Church.

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Let us serve Christ and the Church in all circumstances!

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11Feb2021, May Bro. Eliseo Soriano Rest in Peace!

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Rest in peace, Brother Eli! Condolences to the MCGI family!

Image captured from Wikipedia

We, Catholics, never condemn anyone to hell. Only God sees what’s in the heart and mind of the person during the last moments of his/her earthly journey. A person can sincerely and truly repent in his/her wrongdoings at any point of his/her life. And if Bro. Eli had profound repentance before his death, then he can see God face to face!

Let us serve Christ and the Church in all circumstances!

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Timeline: Fr. Darwin Gitgano vs Bro. Eliseo Soriano

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What really happened between FR. DARWIN GITGANO and BRO. ELISEO SORIANO? This post will answer that question in detail.

Father Darwin Anober Gitgano is a Catholic Apologist from Bohol, Philippines. In the world of debates, he is very famous for being the only Visayan priest with exceptional apologetics and debate skills. He has debated Brother Ramil Parba of Iglesia ni Cristo in 2017. He also preaches in public areas and in local Catholic Churches in an effort to make the faithful aware and proud of the Catholic faith they received from Jesus and the Apostles.

Brother Eliseo “Eli” Soriano is the founder of Members Church of God International (M.C.G.I.) which goes by a popular name “Ang Dating Daan” which means “The Old Path” in English. Eli Soriano claims to know the Bible and insists that he has an authentic interpretation and that only members of his church deserve heaven. He ignores Peter’s warning “that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20). He has criticized the Catholic Church for decades resulting many not-well-informed Catholics to leave the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

In April 17, 2020, Soriano was seen enraged on TV and which was a live broadcast. The MCGI founder felt he was attacked unfairly via social media by this humble Filipino priest who was only trying to clear the doubts of his flock against the attack and criticism of non-Catholic pastors including Soriano. He dared Gitgano to contact him via the comment section of their live streaming in Facebook any day from Monday to Thursday.

Since then, Filipino Catholics around the world, were intrigued and hoping for a friendly debate between these two pastors who claim to know the Sacred Scriptures by heart.

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This is my own timeline version of the clash between Fr. Darwin Gitgano and Bro. Eliseo Soriano. Note that I am including the history of the Church to give a background for my non-Christian friends and to new generation who do not know the history.

  • AD 33 – Jesus founded a Church through Peter and his Apostles

    Most Bible believers do not believe this fact simply because they do not have this rich history and Sacred Tradition (that can be traced back to the time of Jesus and the Apostles) that we Catholics are so blessed with. The truth is that Jesus left one singular Church (not many) through Peter. “And so I say to you, you are Peter (means stone or rock), and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18)

  • AD 40 – Apostles James (and Paul possibly) Christianized Spain

    Paul mentioned in his letter to the Romans that he would be seeing them on his way to Spain (Romans 15:24, 28). Whether this was realized or not, it does not matter the important thing is that Spain is one of the target region of evangelization of the apostles. James, as per history and Sacred Tradition, through the help of the Blessed Virgin Mary as Our Lady of the Pillar, christianized Spain. In the year AD 40, He died as martyr and was buried in Santiago de Compostela Cathedral in Galicia, Spain. His tomb is still in the Catholic Cathedral at the present time.

  • AD 1521 – Spain Christianized the Philippines

    Birth year of Christianity in the Philippines. First expedition from Spain, via Mexico, reached the shores of Samar Islands in the Philippines. “Philippines” was the name given to the newly discovered country in honor of King Philip the ruler of Spain that time. Christianization began since then. Catholic Churches and schools were build by Spanish missionaries. The Catholic Church flourished in the entire archipelago for centuries.

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  • AD 1910’s – Felix Manalo leaves the Catholic Church and founded Iglesia ni Cristo, attacks the Catholic Church for a century

    Felix Manalo, from a humble poor family, without a real understanding of the Catholic teachings, rejected Catholicism at a very young age. He questioned basic Catholic doctrines and went through his own journey of discovering what suits him best and became a part of the many Christian groups such as: the Methodist Church, Presbyterian Church, Christian Mission, and Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1911. SDA got rid of him in 1913 after a long quarrel over SDA doctrines. In 1914, he founded his own church called Iglesia ni Cristo.

  • AD 1980 – From Iglesia ni Cristo, Soriano founded M.C.G.I., attacks the Catholic Church for decades

    Nicholas Perez, one of the Iglesia ni Cristo member, started his own church in the 1970’s. He named his newfound religion Iglesia ng Dios (Haligi’t Suhay) and made Eli Soriano his successor. Soriano separated from Perez’ group and founded his own church in 1980. It took 24 years before the approval of its now official name “Members Church of God International”. Same tactics as the Iglesia ni Cristo, they attack those not-so-learned believers to gain membership.

  • March 31, 2020 – Fr. Darwin’s Punto por Punto program started in Facebook, YouTube

    Towards the end of March, Fr. Darwin and his wingman started “Punto por Punto“, an apologetics program attracting audience in YouTube and Facebook. It aims to debunk the lies of many Catholic attackers. For example, Fr. Darwin answered Soriano’s attack on TV about the praying of the Holy Rosary that it is vain repetition. (See my own post in defense against “vain repetition”.) As a proof that Soriano did attack Catholics, a capture of the video with him preaching this lie was shown in “Punto por Punto”. Then Fr. Darwin would explain as to why Soriano is wrong.

  • April 17, 2020 – Brother Eli Soriano seen enraged on TV against “Punto por Punto“, against the priest

    The pastor, on TV in front of all his audience, went extremely angry with the the Catholic priest for doing such thing. He said it was unfair for “Punto por Punto” to cut a piece of his preaching and the priest would talk for minutes about what he said. He called Gitgano names like “liar”, “thick-faced”, “bisaya”, etc. He then dared the clergyman to get in touch with him via their live-streaming’s comments section. Seriously? How can he see Fr. Darwin’s comment among the thousands of comments from Soriano’s members. A live debate via Zoom or Skype would be better! In any case, this was the start of the future (hopefully) debate. Soriano said he would answer Punto por Punto‘s episodes to tell the world that the priest is wrong.

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  • April 18, 2020 – Fr. Darwin heard Bro. Eli’s rage and accepted the challenge

    Early in the morning, excited to share the news, the apologist informed his followers (that’s including me, laugh!) in Facebook about the pastor’s reaction. He thanked God that their efforts have resulted to an awareness of the Catholic faith to many people and it has reached even to one of the main persecutors of the Church. He then said in his post that Catholics are not angry with the pastor even though he keeps on attacking the Catholic Church. “God bless you (Soriano) and Mama Mary loves you”, the priest said.

  • Apr 20, 2020 – Fr. Darwin on Facebook Live for three hours waiting for Soriano to fulfill his words, but nothing

    The Facebook Live coverage started at 07:03 PM and ended 10:14 PM. No sign of Soriano’s response about Punto por Punto or about the young priest. Fr. Darwin waited patiently for more than three hours in the hope he could have an open communication with Soriano. I can see his thirst of proving the world that Soriano’s preaching is wrong. He claimed to have sent around 10 messages in the comments section in Facebook but they were either deleted or responded by Soriano’s members only. His live coverage gained at least 43k views, 19k comments, 4k reactions, and almost 2k shares.

  • Apr 23, 2020 – MCGI folks informed Fr. Darwin a friendly talk with Soriano possible on Fridays only, MCGI agent will call the priest on 24th April evening

    Thursday. Around 9pm, Fr. Darwin announced in his page that he was was invited for MCGI’s Q&A on Fridays. He said he is excited to talk to Soriano on Friday and he asked his Facebook followers to follow his live coverage on Friday April 24, 2020 07:30 PM with a hashtag #ProudCatholic #ProudTeamMaria. He said he called and spoke to an MCGI agent who promised a call on the next day.

  • April 24, 2020 – Fr. Darwin on Facebook Live exhausted all means to contact MCGI, lines busy or no agent available for 3 hours

    Friday. Fr. Darwin Gitgano’s live post started around 07:40 PM. No calls received from MCGI. Fr. Darwin’s team called the Ang Dating Daan three hotline numbers multiple times but the lines are busy or no agents available. The priest made use of his time, with thousands of watchers, to expose some of the lies of Brother Soriano.

    1. 1. Soriano claimed Catholics consider Mary as “God of Mercy” or “Dios ng Awa” in a Catholic Marian prayer book of Mary (page 63). Turned out that the prayer book has 18 pages only. Also, “God of Mercy” it mentions is the “God who gave life to Mary’s parents” and not Mary herself.
    2. 2. Per Soriano, the statues and images in the Catholic Church started at the Council of Trent (held between 1545 and 1563). He referred to a book “Faith of our Fathers” page 164. Which clearly says that images or Christ and Mary should be retained. Retained means it has existed even before the said council. The same book (p162) states that the images started in the “early Christian Church” depicting images of Christ’s passion.

    09:31 PM, A call from MCGI member Brother Ben Sanchez who referred the Catholic Team to try Skype instead of phone calls (an alibi?).

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  • May 01, 2020 – Fr. Darwin received a call from MCGI. Bro. Eli Soriano will answer questions related to Punto por Punto episodes in few hours

    07:00 PM. Fr. Darwin posted a special announcement. He said, “I hope this is true. Ang Dating Daan called us informing us that Bro. Eli Soriano will face us tonight in order to address simple questions about Punto por Punto episodes from 1-7. I am already excited. I hope they honor their words (laughs). The truth that we spread via social media has called their attention. I hope that if this will happen today, it would continue every Friday so we can follow their program to correct the errors of Bro. Eli.”

    07:50 P.M. Facebook live started. Fr. Darwin and Bro John Doe played the call audio they received from Bro Mel (MCGI lector) earlier inviting them to join the Ang Dating Daan live via Zoom.

    10:00 P.M. After more than two hours of waiting, MCGI never contacted Father Darwin. The priest and his team used the time to answer some of their viewers questions instead.

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Let us serve Christ and the Church in all circumstances!