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Can someone with a deeper understanding of this catholic practice explain it to me more in depth?
I know that there are a few versus that giving praise to mother marry stems from. One big one being Luke 11:27.
But read through 28 as well.
“As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
So this was not a correct approach as seen in the last part of the verse.
Also, Marry was a sinful woman. She birthed Christ yes. But he was only Christ because of God’s doing. And neither Joseph nor Marry had any influence in that.
And the Bible also says in 1st Timothy 2:5 that- “ For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
I just can’t comprehend how Catholicism can see praying to Marry is correct.
Have they not read these passages as well? Plus others!
And they also tend to make statues of the different quote on quote “Saints”
But mostly I am asking about Marry.
Is this not idolatry? I cannot compute
You’ll just end up knowing your allies here.
I suggest you take a course in Mariology. Many non Catholics with open mind have done it. Mariology gives you our Catholic views and understanding about Mary and all the titles given to her.
Remember God put an enmity between the woman (Mary) in Genesis and the serpent (Satan) and between Satan’s seed and Mary’s seed (Gen 3:15). We Catholics are obviously on Mary’s side.
She intercedes for us like many other saints living and dead. It’s her main role, she intercedes and lead us to Jesus his son, the one and only mediator between God and humankind.
You can send me a message if you want.
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So when you say that Mary is one who intercedes for us and that it her main role, what scripture do you have that speaks on that?
I assume it’s in one of the seven books is protistans don’t use
|Hi ***** how are you? I said she “and many other saints” intercede for us. Intercession can be made by a living person (like our pastors) or those who died in the friendship of God (the saints and prophets like Moses, etc.)|
|Sorry late reply. I appreciate your willingness. So is the intercession by those who are not alive based on scriptures? And also, does that imply that any person who has died but received salvation can intercede? Like a family member? Or do you just refer to saints and figures in the Bible? Also, if that is correct, that would mean the o oh thing special about Jesus is that he took the judgement of God upon himself. And on him we must believe. If your understanding in regards to intercession are correct, then would that not take away the unique attribute of Jesus that he is the one who connects us to the father?|
Also, what then do you take from 1st Timothy 2:5? “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”
|Sorry also im doing this between my tasks. Appreciate your responses too. Mediation is Christ’s unique role and nobody else can replace our Lord for that. So Paul’s words to Timothy and other verses like Jn 17:3; 1 Cor 8:6 support that. Intercessors can be our family members both living and dead, or simply YOU can be my intercessor. I can ask you to intercede for me. James 5:16-18 says the righteous man’s prayer has great power in its effects. Since our souls are immortal, we Catholic believe the righteous men and women who died can still intercede for us. Yes! We Catholics believe they are alive and are in the presence of God. Try to reflect on 2 Kings 13:21. There’s a miracle there attributed to a dead prophet.|
|Okay thank you|
|Let me know what you think about that miracle in Kings.|
|Romans 15:30 reveals to me that the living can intercede for the living. That is my reasoning for that belief which you also agree with. However I have never found any scripture that speaks on the dead being allowed to intercede. Elisha we are almost certain is in heaven. But as far as our own family goes, we can not be sure. Even if we would like to think so. The instance you pointed me towards is interesting indeed. However just because this was showing us an action taken by someone who had already died, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the dead can intercede. I feel as though this subject is similar to some others. An Example being communion. Some churches take it once a week. Some once a month. Some even just once or twice per year. None of them are wrong or right though since the Bible simply says “as often as ye partake of it” So in the same way is this belief in intercession aside from Christ just kinda a personal belief/choice? I just can’t understand why a person would desire to have someone besides Christ intercede for them when they could just pray directly to Christ.|
|It’s easy. Christ mediates, the saints can only intercede. And we are informed in the Bible (James 5:16) that the prayers of certain people are more effective than those of others. And there are many other verses that supports intercessory prayers.|
Elisha’s intercession and the frequency of the Holy Communion cannot be compared. I agree that the frequency is not really mandated in detail in the Bible reason why we Catholics actually do it every day in many parishes. Elisha’s intercession is clearly stated in the Bible and we cannot not believe in it.
|Once again I appreciate your responses. So many people are defensive right from the start of a conversation when someone disagrees with their point of view. Which is sad. Anyway, I see where you are coming from there. It’s a difference in interpretation then I guess? See, I always thought that verse to be referring to men like you or I when it speaks of prayers of righteous people. And as far as Elisha goes, I guess I was more so speaking about intercession specifically to do with prayers. Also another thing that has me thinking is your use of two words. Those being intercede and mediate. I always took that as being the same thing. As in, if Christ is the mediator he is then also the intercessor. I could look it up online but that could very well give me a non biblical definition. So instead I’ll ask your thoughts on it since I don’t have any knowledge of it. What is the difference between mediator and intercessor within your belief? Does Christ being the mediator not also mean he is the one true intercessor? That is what my understanding has always been anyway.|
|No worries am glad we have this healthy discussion. Jesus Christ is the unique mediator between heaven and humankind. Of course as mediator, he mediates and intercedes between us and the Father. The saints intercedes for us to Jesus. This may seem inefficient for a non-Catholic but it’s very effective in the evangelisation and for individual spirituality too. When we look at Mexico, millions of pagan natives converts to Christianity because of Mary’s apparition there in the 16th century. If you have time in the future, the story of Guadalupe might interest you. Countless miracles happened and still happening because of Mary’s intercession. As a Catholic, I can pray straight to Jesus or to the Father in Jesus’ name. But my spiritual life has been enriched thru asking Intercession from Mary and other saints like Saint John Vianney. What Christian group do you belong to btw?|
|I see. Well I don’t exactly know if it gets to God still that way but I respect your view and am interested for sure. And what do you mean by what group? I attend a small church in southern Indians in the U.S. It is a Pentecostal denomination. Though even though I attend that church I often attend others. I don’t really have what people would call a “home church” And I consider myself to be non denominational. I do attend the church I mentioned above the most though. And it is part of the restoration movement. Does that tell you anything?|
|Yeah. I understand now how hard it is for you as a pentecostal or a non denominational to understand the role of saints. For me, easy because I’m born and raised Catholic. It’s something that existed since the beginning of Christianity. Only around early 1600s that strong claims against it started. But there were times when I also doubted about it. But studying both the Catholic teachings and non-Catholics objections cleared my doubts and humbly subjected myself to the teachings of the Church. I hope I have answered some of your questions and hope someday you will find a home church where you could receive the valid sacraments which we Catholics believe are essentials to our souls and for our salvation. If you have questions about Catholic Faith you can ask me I can only share my own experience and understanding. If you want an expert to answer your questions there are a lot of exceptional Catholic apologists in the US. Most of them were not Catholics. Try your luck and call Catholic Answers +18883187884. I listen to their program sometimes.|
|Thank you! I am less seasoned than you are in my faith being that I am so young. However that does not make it impossible for me to withhold knowledge as well I suppose. So if you ever for some reason would have a question for me I will do the same in answering to the best of my ability. It’s night where I am. I don’t know what it is where you are but have a good day/night regardless.|
|I’ll sure will ask you a couple of questions not related to this topic in the future. Thanks. For now, I did forget something earlier to ask regarding intercession of saints. Maybe you already encounter this before. What do you think of Rev 5:8? When we pray, it’s always for ourselves and/or for others people right? In this case, Who would benefit from the prayers of the saints in heaven when they are already in glory with God? In our eyes as Catholics, those on earth (and in purgatory – let’s not talk about purgatory :-)) are the beneficiaries of their prayers. By the way, Im in the Philippines.|
|So as a catholic, are you required to be subject to ALL of the practices? Like, can you be catholic but not to the Hail Mary’s? Can you be catholic but not use any intercessors? As in, praying to Jesus only. Can you be catholic but be in disagreement with the Pope? Can you be catholic but drink a substitute for the wine instead of wine? Can you be a catholic but be willing to attend Protestant gatherings? Things like that.|
Btw, we are 12 hours apart in our time. So when it is 6:00 am for you, it is 6:00 PM for me and etc. So I’ll try to send messages to you with that in mind so that I don’t send you things at ridiculous times.
|Yes. I can be Catholic and pray straight to Jesus only and not say the Hail Marys or ask intercession but I feel guilty not to because the sacred scriptures encourage us to do so. Popes are not infallible when their messages is not addressed to the universal Church. So yeah i disagree a lot especially with the current Pope. Not sure what you refer with wine substitute? It’s a sin for us to attend protestant weddings and prayers AND participate in them. But ok to attend as observer only.|
|Why is it sinful to pray prayers? Could you not meet me in person and pray with me on the fly? Or do you always have to do specific prayers that are practiced? And do you consider me your brother although I am not catholic? Or only if I became catholic? Also, what sacred scriptures encourage it?|
|Simple prayers are fine. We can pray together no problem. But rituals and ceremonies (like wedding) are a big no. We are brothers as adopted children of God (Gal 4:5). You don’t need to be Catholic if your conscience does not tell you so. Sacred Scriptures = The Holy Bible|
Im actually working at night here so going to bed now haha.
My brother, who died few years ago, once “protested” about this in our small chapel in Mindanao. He was is his early teen years when this happened. My father (due to lack of priests) was the one leading the community service in memory of the passion of our Lord.
There are four parts of the Catholic Celebration of the Lord’s Passion on Good Friday: The Liturgy of the Word, the Solemn Intercessions, the Adoration of the Holy Cross, and the Holy Communion. It is the second part where we kneel 10 times (or more).
We have intercessory prayers for the entire Church for the specific needs of the local Church during all other Holy Masses. However, in Good Fridays when we commemorate the crucifixion and death of Jesus, the Church make the intercession prayers more special by asking the faithful to kneel as she solemnly unite her petitions with the passion, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ on the cross. This is the reason why we kneel 10 times during the celebration of the Lord’s Passion in Good Fridays.
The 10 intentions of the Mother Church on Good Fridays are:
- For the Holy Church
- For the Pope
- For all orders and degrees of the faithful
- For catechumens
- For the unity of Christians
- For the Jewish people
- For those who do not believe in Christ
- For those who do not believe in God
- For those in public office
- For those in tribulation
In some cases, there could be more if the bishop issues a decree or allows other intentions to be added.
I wish I could tell my brother about this before he died, or before he even grumbled about it. He actually said in our dialect, “Ah, gibinuangan ra man ta aning papa, bai!” which translates to “I think my father is playing with us!”. He said this loudly that many attendees could hear him and caused laughter inside the chapel.
Let us serve Christ and the Church in all circumstances!